George Washington's Faith
Much has been said about the faith of our country's founding fathers. Some say they were believers in Christ, others are said to be Deists. The following is an interesting article about the faith of George Washington:
The original "W"
The original "W"
posted by Charlie Wallace at
6:10 PM
9 Comments:
doesn't it make it even more impressive that as a devout christian george washington and our other founding fathers (who were also people of faith) wrote the constitution in such a manner that it would ensure that religion had no place in government? by that i mean that they sought to create a country in which there would not be a publically enforced morality, and they did so despite holding firm convictions about the validity of christian morality. and yet so often in present times, from blue laws to elections, religious beliefs are forced into the public realm. so isn't the lesson that washington and the founders provide saying that we should feel free to have any private beliefs we want, but that reason, and not religion, should be the basis for public discourse?
I agree with seperation of church and state. God has give the sword (laws) to the secular state to rule. Christianity, whenever left up to be a ruling force, has been disastrous. (See 4th - 16th century)
However, with that said, a government has to have some moral foundation of laws. I thank God that the founders provided a Christian framework with Christian values to work from.
If a country's moral foundation is not Judeo-Christian, where does that country derive its moral foundation?
reason, and not religion, should be the basis for public discourse?
Dantzler Smith,
This statement is particularly troubling. There are two problems I have with it. First, what happened at the fall? Our capacity is reason was partially marred or confused. We are unable to reason in a way that isn't selfish. We are sinfully inclined body, soul, and mind. Second, since when has faith become an unreasonable thing. It is an extremely dangerous propostion to separate faith and the secular into to individual and exclusive spheres. If we do this, we become the man in James 1 who is like a wave tossed about by every wind of doctrine because we will never be able to know where the line between secular and faith begins and ends.
a constructivist or even a utilitarian account of law begins from the most basic premise that humans are nothing more than rational agents. and from that bare bones, one is able to construct an argument for justice and a legal apparatus to support justice. it may well be that through such a process ideas like the golden rule will be result (in fact kant based everything he did on reason and ultimately comes up with a very religious looking doctrine). but the genius of the founders is that by appealing to reason, they appeal to everyone. if they had appealed solely to a particular religion then A. they would have excluded anyone who didnt believe in it and B. arguments in the public domain would have to be made on the basis of religion which is awfully tricky since who is to say that one interpretation of the bible is right and the other is wrong? This is directed toward your 2nd point michael. ideas founded upon reason can be argued all the way through, whereas ideas founded upon religion can only be argued backwards to a point at which you must just accept something on faith. again, that’s not a bad thing privately, but publically it creates problems since not everyone will have the same faith.
my point isnt that i am anti religion or anything, its that Locke, Hobbes, Descartes, Rousseau, and the whole lot of thinkers that influenced the founders of our country were religious people. Yet, the also realized that a country founded on reason would stand up better than one founded on religion for many reasons, some of which i have just pointed out.
Reason becomes religion when you look at it that way.
In fact, We all serve God or a 'god' of some kind. Every person who seeks to make law is bringing a presupposition of belief about what is 'right' and what is 'wrong.'
Your line of thinking presupposes that reason is trustworthy and true. Hitler 'reasoned' that he was doing the right thing, as did Napolean, Genghis Khan, and every other serial killer in this country. Their actions make perfect sense to themselves. Therefore, human reason, while good at times, can be flawed.
I do agree that a country should not ruled by a theocracy. However, where that country gets its laws is important. And because we all are sinners and think and live for ourselves, reason cannot be trusted.
you make a good point about making reason a 'god'. i suppose its unavoidable to quasi-diefy something when you are pursuing objective values. but i stand by the belief that reason is more inclusive and if it can be extrapolated out to provide objective value judgements then one would be able to dismiss serial killers and the like by saying simply that while they acted rationally on an internal level they did not on an objective level.
and as to the last bit you wrote, i dont have a response so much as a question: if reason cannot be trusted, then how does come up with a political or legal system that isnt a theocracy?
and following that, if we are sinners and that fact is inescapable, then why not use reason to make sense of the world. so the kingdom of man would be governed by god-given reason, whereas the kingdom of god would be ruled by faith (i dont know what the kingdom of god would be ruled by, but i hope that metaphor makes sense enough anyway).
anywho, those are just some thoughts that occur to me.
peace
"if reason cannot be trusted, then how does come up with a political or legal system that isnt a theocracy?"
A: One comes up with a democracy, like the founding fathers did, based on values given to us in the Word of God, which is based on the 'reason' of our Almighty Father who created each and every one of us, and then leaving room for each citizen to have religious liberty.
"and following that, if we are sinners and that fact is inescapable, then why not use reason to make sense of the world."
A: I'm not sure what you are asking here. If we are individual sinners, then we are also sinners as a whole. Therefore, we look to the one truth that does not change - Scripture - to guide our decisions.
but the constitution and concept of democracy do not have the values of god implicitly in them. and the founders made sure of this. for if they did have particular religious values at their core, then religious liberty would be meaningless to anyone that didnt suscribe to that particular religion. freedom of religion means being able to not pick any religion and for that to be possible, the concept of liberty inbedded in the constitution cannot be founded on religious ideas bc that would mean that one was inescapably bound religion.
sorry for taking up so much space, i mean ultimately we are just speculating on what the framers had in mind when they wrote the constitution. thanks for the discussion anyway.
Agreed - we will just have to disagree on this one. I think it is impossible to say that the founders did not have biblical fondation in mind.
I'll leave you with a quote from George Washington:
"Of all the dispositions and habits that lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. Therefore, in vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism that seeks to subvert these great pillars."
also
"I now make it my earnest prayer that, God ... would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility, and pacific temper of mind which were the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion (speaking of Jesus), and without a humble imitation of whose example in these things we can never hope to be a happy nation."
Being that many of the founding fathers felt like Washington, it would be impossible to divide one's faith and presuppositions that one would bring to law. Enjoyed the disucssion. If anyone else out there would like to add anything, feel free.
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