Andrea Yates: Insane or Evil?
Allow me to post a quick interlude before part three of my sermon is posted. Today, Texas woman and (former) mother of five children, Andrea Yates, was found NOT GUILTY of killing her five kids, even though she confessed, by reason of insanity. Rather then spend a worthless amount of time deciphering law and figuring out if she met the criteria for being deemed legally insane, I'd like to bring to the forefront a different issue: psychology.
The science of psychology has been given equal footing with the science of modern medicine. However, unlike modern medicine, no one can ever be proven insane, depressed, anxious, or any other of the hundreds of psychological disorders. How can you say that, you may ask? Well, for one, unlike discovering that someone has cancer, heart disease, lukemia, or any other biological or physical ailment, with psychological disorders there is no blood test (i.e. no certainty of any kind) that proves that someone suffers from a particular disorder. We can trust modern psychological disorder diagnoses about as much as I can trust my dog to tell me how to get to the Piggly Wiggly. A diagnosis is simply one person's opinion of one's mental state as being 'not normal...' what ever that is. I know no one who is completely normal.
What does this teach our society? If you commit a heinus crime, for any reason, commit that crime so over the top that no one would think that a 'sane' person could ever do it, and dodge a conviction, and go spend the rest of your life, maybe, in a mental institution.
One thing that I do believe of Yates: she claimed that she was possessed by Satan and I would have to agree with her...however, even that does not absolve someone of personal responsibility. Our country, in an effort to protect its citizens, is making the issue of personal responsibility null and void.
A biblical worldview clearly affirms that all people are sinners and all are capable of grievous evil and it is by God's common grace alone that sin has not completely swallowed the world up and spit it out.
posted by Charlie Wallace at
8:49 PM
8 Comments:
Lets play another game of Madlibs
(Christianity) has been given equal footing with the science of modern medicine. However, unlike modern medicine, no one can ever be proven (Christian), or any other of the hundreds of psychological disorders. How can you say that, you may ask? Well, for one, unlike discovering that someone has cancer, heart disease, lukemia, or any other biological or physical ailment, with (Christianity) there is no blood test (i.e. no certainty of any kind) that proves that someone suffers from (Christianity). We can trust modern(Christianity) diagnoses about as much as I can trust my dog to tell me how to get to the Piggly Wiggly. A diagnosis is simply one person's opinion of one's mental state as being 'not normal...' what ever that is. I know no one who is completely normal.
I have the feeling you were fishing for this because it's too obvious
I am not entirely comfortable with your line of reasoning.
While there are methodological problems with Psychology, it is undenaible that there are people who through no obvious fault of their own are unable to reason probably. These people often experience quite miserable lives because they are unable to adjust to society.
It is quite unreasonable to treat somebody suffering from such a deficency of reason with the same level of responsiblity as somebody who has normal powers of reasoning.
If I kill my mother to get her money, that is wickedness and I deserve to die.
However, supposing I kill my mother because I believe her to be a demon. This is not a conclusion that would be reached by a person with normal powers of reasoning. I can hardly be blamed for having a condition that lead me to believe such a bizarre thing. Nor could I be blamed for my action, supposing that my mother really was a demon, killing her might be a rational action. Hence, I cannot be given criminal responsbility for my action.
In Britain, at least, the threshold for proving criminal insanity is high. A person must have committed a crime without understanding that it was a crime. And it must be caused by a condition that has no external cause.
Every Blessing in Christ
Matthew
McFeely,
The main problem with your analogy is that Christianity never claims to be a science - psychology does.
Matthew,
I agree with you. I'm not quite making he conclusion that this woman is acting in a completely rational, whatever that is, manner. In her case, however, she has admitted that she did understand that what she was doing was wrong. After she systematically killed all 5 of her children, she dialed 911. So legally, she should not be considered insane because in her own words, she said she knew right from wrong. However, if she is "insane," then how can we trust what she admits to? See the problem we're dealing with?
Yes, it is a difficult issue. However, I think the concept of criminal insanity is vitally important in a legal system.
"The main problem with your analogy is that Christianity never claims to be a science - psychology does.
I never said christainity claims to be a science. I said that some give it an equal footing with science. Christianity does, as well as all other religions, claim to be the truth. That's what we are looking for here. Is this lady truly insane? You claim that only hard evidence can be used to figure this out. Why is it, in your eyes, that only hard evidence is admissable in some cases and in others it is second to faith, or any other idea that can't be quantified?
And to say that psychology is on the same level as your dog's ability to get to the grocery store. You must be kidding. Really? An entire field of science/medicine is completly invalid? I don't think that you believe this. You, yourself are a psychologist. As a preacher it is your job to inspire people to come to god. If the bible was all that was needed for this, you would be out of a job. Isn't it also the job of a preacher to council people on their problems? It's not like if a member of you congregation comes to you and says "I've been contemplating suicide" you would just quote scripture stating that it's wrong. If you did, then you would be a preist. (haha) You would find out why he feels this way and try to help him through his problems. Isn't psychology the same thing?
I watched this show last night about people who do crazy things in their sleep. There was one guy would would force himself on his wife while he was asleep. Another guy who would hit his wife in his sleep. Peter Polansky jumped out of a third story window in his sleep, and another kid ran into traffic and was killed in his sleep. Should these people be convicted of crimes? If someone is unaware of what they are doing are they still responsible?
McFeely,
You never said Christianity was a science but you grouped it together with the 'science' of psychology. I claimed that there are tests that medicine gives that asserts very highly the probability, or fact, that someone has a condition. Psychology has no tests - they have opinions...any psychologist will tell you that. It works very similar to old-time medicine where the doctors observed your symptoms and guessed what the diagosis may or may not be.
I do not claim that the whole psychological field is invalid. However, I do think people put way too much trust in a philosophy that masquerades itself as a hard science.
"You, yourself are a psychologist. As a preacher it is your job to inspire people to come to god. If the bible was all that was needed for this, you would be out of a job."
I am not a psychologist. I am a preacher of God's Word. I explain, rebuke and exhort people to turn to Christ based on Scripture. It is not my obligation to convince people they need Christ. I am only the messenger. The reason people accept Christ is because the Holy Spirit, God Himself, has convicted their heart through the reading, preaching or hearing of the Word.
This is how it works: I say to you right now, McFeely, Jesus died for your sins so that you my have eternal life with Him. He loves you very much and He alone knows what is best for you and your life. Please accept Him now. One of two things are happening at this point. You are allowing the Holy Spirit, God Himself, to search your heart and you are open to the idea. You feel a quickening in the pit of your stomach, a racing in your heart, which is called conviction, urging you to turn to Christ.
Or you completely disregard my plea, along with the urging of the Spirit, and reject the Gospel offer.
All I've done is give the message. I'm not a psychologist. The Spirit, and you, do the work, and make the decision.
By the way, there are plenty of pastors who counsel solely from the Bible - in fact there is a whole seminary that specializes in doing just that, Westminster Seminary in Philadelphia. They are conservative and Presbyterian. They all have jobs and have not been fired. But you have raised a good point, there are plenty of Christian psychologists that are filling believers' minds with Biblical worldview mixed with secular worldview (pscyhology). The two do not mix because biblical counsel is God-centered and psychology is "me"-centered.
If someone came to me contemplating suicide, I would not just throw Scripture at him, but i would not rest on psychology either. What exactly would I do? Well that is complicated and will take up another post but e-mail me and I will tell you.
Regarding your last paragraph, sleeping is different then what this woman did. I'm not talking about sleeping and not being aware of one's surroundings. I'm talking about killing your 5 children in a premeditated fashion and knowing it was wrong. No analogy, strawman, or red herring can detract from that simple fact.
i saw tom cruise on good mourning america and he said that matt lauer was "glib" bc matt tried to say that some psychologists thought that they could help people with certain chemical imbalances by giving them medicane. tom pointed out that scientology tells him that psychology is all lies and that only scientology can help you.
that being said, if you go to a university and find the psychology dept, it isnt in the 'hard science' division is it. its a social science, which means it takes certain facts and then tries to project out from there. and you are right, we shouldnt put all our faith in that. but hold up, you should put all your faith in religion either bc it takes certain facts, ie provable things, and then make a bunch of assumptions. how do i know, well we are all subject to the same natural laws, but there are hundreds of different religions. and yet you do present religion as a hard science every time you say creationism is right or there is god and it can't possibly be the case that there isnt. of course its a possibility that there isnt. of course its possible that the world wasnt made in 7days.
therefore, i am forced to say that you are in fact, in the words of tom cruise, my spiritual leader, "glib"
dantzler,
welcome to the conversation. FYI, I do not ever claim that Christianity is a hard science. There is a ton of evidence throughout the world, in my opinion, for Intelligent Design. Does that claim make belief in Christ a science? No. Faith in Christ is a way of life where we are regenerated by the Holy Spirit, God Himself. Everyone makes a conscious decision in his or her life to either accept or reject Christ.
Again, pscyhology is a completely different animal. People accept psychological diagnoses as if they were medical ones.
I say to you, too, Danztler, Jesus Christ loves you. He created you. He wants you to live your life to its fullest but the only way to do that is to place complete trust in Him. Without Jesus, your life will never be fulfilled and will never be full of meaning. The day of salvation is now. Jesus is knocking on the door of your heart.
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